# DevFest Florida 2019 Speaker Interviews

Canonical: https://davidk.dev/talks/devfest-florida-2019-speaker-interviews/
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9i9AxnJf04
Speaker: David Khourshid (@DavidKPiano), creator of XState
Type: Interview · Event: Thunder Nerds (DevFest Florida 2019 speaker interviews) · Year: 2019 · Duration: 22:16 · Views: 66 (as of 2026-10-19)
Topics: Adaptive & intelligent UIs

## Summary
We built a CRM with Flutter and so, yeah, it, so this business to business application. I went further and I was like, using model driven development, so it's state machines and statecharts.

## Key takeaways (quoted from the transcript)
- We built a CRM with Flutter and so, yeah, it, so this business to business application. (1:00)
- I went further and I was like, using model driven development, so it's state machines and statecharts. (6:00)
- Instead of like, relying on HTML and CSS, you're just saying declaring your UI on the web. (8:00)
- Instead of having a client, a server application, we're using the same application with different endpoints. (14:00)

## Chapters
- 0:00 Introduction
- 8:00 You took six months to build the flutter
- 14:00 I think this was his first conference gave…
- 20:00 David KaYe piano because I play the piano…

## Transcript
[0:00] Oh, welcome to Thunder areas. I'm Brian Henson and I'm Frederick Philip Bond Bison. Thank you for consuming the Thunder Nerds conversation with a lot of the people, the technology, I love what they do and do tech good. And we're here at Deaf Fest 2019, where we at Brian, we're in our land of. It's okay, it's a nice, fun, good job. We're here with a lot of the Percenter speakers here. Why don't we just go around the room?

[0:00] What's your name, sir? Rory Davis? Yeah. Full stack up mobile developer before excellent. It's Kylie, yeah, Dave. Of course she doesn't in this ad. Steven K. Piano, that's right, and to Elise, and yeah, software developer, Mon Suite, excellent, great. Thanks you all for joining us. I know we have a lot of people on here, we'll try to. What exactly do you do? Watch, what your role? Yeah, so I took over the mobile department at the company that I worked at.

[1:00] We built a CRM with Flutter and so, yeah, it, so this business to business application. So I have a ton of users about California and all around the world, so yeah, it's been pretty cool. Took a product that didn't exist at all because when I joined, they didn't have a mobile app. And so they have a really old web application, but completely rebuilt, and we're gonna make a flutter web. And yes, actually running like David.

[1:00] So I work with Microsoft on the CSE team, which stands for consumer software, and we create innovative solutions for companies using Azure announcer services. Such as just like the machine learning, there's so much that we do, like, I'm not even doing JavaScript right now, I'm doing hurry, bring some of the key framers. Well, I'm work out front, an engineer from the most great, but I'm Merkel. Okay to EDR, so there's a lot of banks that using sixty, and I'm from Danford.

[2:00] A Oh, excellent, okay, great. And everyone, I assume, has already spoken today. All right, so we don't we run and talk about all your jokes? To did a duo moving at Angular application to flutter? And of course, I'd like six months, so we took a full-fledged six months, yeah, and the last version we did, like in a month, but basically we built a full fledge, so. We amped stories as a new format coming out that's getting supported by Google, Google search, right, that's off.

[3:00] We can create like Snapchat stories for the web, basically, and we built a full editor that you can do without coding. You can build all these stories and then just share a link and then have a hosted HTML website. So, I mean, you're right in the middle, the hot drama, yeah, why, why? That? Tell me, like, what made you interested in doing that? Right now? There's there's only one other editor, so this space is wide open for people that take on.

[3:00] So we found that not only could we make a splash with the, you know, just being another editor on the market, but also being fluttered. We have a huge community. So being one of the first really big web applications builder. And you can imagine like we are changing our view from web and how we consume the content for right? I mean, before I were using like the scroll and now is so you see the stories and it's terrible.

[4:00] Mmm, not more scrolling. So this is the difference in our editor. Makes it faster using AMP in the mobile applications because you can create a story and share the link within a matter of, like, two minutes. Yeah, so hopefully hosted everything. Principal. You can take a picture, put some taxi insurer on the web, not a sign of interest. Yeah, okay. So who would you say is a the best example? As like somebody, that this will be a benefit?

[4:00] Yeah, so there's already people using this kind of technology like CNN and like, you know, these Mashable, these huge marketing firms, like, they have people that have this content. We even created a CI SDK that can use it, we can take a JSON schema and export an HTML to, so we will that as well. But this whole process is we're connecting the marketing people, being able to create websites with and without having to go into coding and stuff like that.

[5:00] Yes, are you all hosting? Yeah, we use everything Google, we use cloud run for the SDK, we use a Firebase hosting for the website, we have Google Cloud storage to managing all the actual things. Yeah, we got funded. Yeah, David, what about you? Talk so? My talk was on mind-reading with adaptive and intelligent user interfaces, which is user interfaces. And funny enough, even though I work at Microsoft, I ended up talking a lot about Google technology.

[5:00] They created something called guest J/S, which was written by Sam Saucony, works at Google, which predicts which peach are going to visit next in pre-loaded. So you have this really fast experience if you click the link in the page to show, so it's like, Wow, my internet go a lot faster. Adaptive books for Reax, which allow you to basically check like, Okay, this device is like an edge device, it's like one that might not have enough data.

[6:00] So we want to show them a limited view rather than a full view. But I went further and I was like, using model driven development, so it's state machines and statecharts. We can easily create these adaptive user interfaces. That just predicts anything the user does in the app in real time. Wow, yeah, imagine that could even translate to web homers place. I can see where you know you're browsing around the website.

[6:00] Where might they go next? And right? Instead of like, having to do like I always do this step, this, I visit this, it's like it predicts like, yeah, you probably want that, so we're just gonna make it streamed up, perfect. Yeah, where? How is it working? Machine learning, reinforcement learning, that's cool. So what kind of points do you want people to get away from that? From? You? Talk? Well. The main point is just this whole idea of model driven developments, which is not something we talk about nowadays.

[7:00] Because startups are all about move fast and break things right. Yeah, it's like you have a problem, you throw, you throw code and a lot of money at it, and you're like, hopefully the problem will solve it enough, right? And so model driven development is taking a step back. And saying, before you do anything, take pencil and paper. Start drawing out your solution. Your box is union, your arrows. And then, once you have a very clear picture of what your solutions going to look like, then start coding.

[7:00] And so that has a lot of benefits, even there's more upfront costs and was a bad best main line for modes. So what if I'll? Eat you? What's? One thing, definitely don't be afraid of.

[8:00] Flutter web we were kind of one of the pioneers with, you know, building plugins and stuff for the web. For Flutter Angular Dart, I don't know if you guys are familiar, but that used to be that was a thing for a long time. And people are starting to transition to Flutter web because you can use all existing Dart plugins already regularly and then addition to mobile, you get to just have this awesome experience on the web so you can build the branding exactly how you want it.

[8:00] So, instead of like, relying on HTML and CSS, you're just saying declaring your UI on the web. Which is in an oh, I want a desktop application, then you just export to a desktop like you don't have to do anything else. Yeah, that's so wonderful, that saves so much time. Now let's see it. What's the negative of flourish? There's so many positives like you hearing, I mean, it has what's like the big negative.

[8:00] Is there a big negative? If you're only using one platform, yeah, sometimes it's better to just do it on that platform, like if you're only never going to do Apple, yeah, then just do it with Swift UI if you're gonna ever have another extension of your application. Well, but to play Devil's advocate, what if I put out a application that's just for Apple and it's super successful? And I go, Oh, let me try that over here, I already have good.

[9:00] So, yeah, one of the cool things about footers, you can reuse your existing Swift and Kotlin, I mean, objective-C code, as well as, you know, connect your application. You can add a flutter view without having to break your app so you can do it end often. Actually, I had a really successful iOS application I but like the most popular pitch back in the world. And because of that, everybody was asking for an Android application.

[9:00] I rebuilt the same application in a matter of, like three weeks that it took me eight months to build on iOS was before. Yeah, that's amazing, mmm, that's just extremely fast to work with. Yeah, and you took six months to build the flutter. How long did it take to build your presentation? Like how much time did? You spend presentation my present like today, so it's actually built on many presentations that I've given, like just this year, way too many conferences.

[10:00] Basically, every single time I give a talk, my like, my talk, it falls and all. Add slides, change slides based on previous information. That's a ghost with a lot talks in the last speakers I talked to is that what takes them months is the research, looking up, developing the ideas. And then once they're like, all right, yes. Now I have a very clear way of how many can talk about this. And it's like, well, the conference is in two days.

[10:00] It's a lot of work that goes into it. It's funny, I talked. I've seen some things on Twitter where people be like, Oh, I don't want to go see a conference with. You know, why does speakers talk about just doing it this morning? It's so rude to the conference attendees and it's like, you're not really doing it this morning. Education, your years of experience, so it's a lot more than that. It doesn't matter if it took you half an hour to put it into a PowerPoint or whatever it is, it still took you months.

[11:00] It's not so much about what you are presenting, it's about what the attendee is going to learn. If you put in a half hour, it doesn't matter. If I got something out of that was truly inspiring to you go, Oh, I wouldn't learn flutter. Or, you know that, there's the back workshops, these are, these are presentations. Yeah, you go there to learn a little bit about something that might inspire you to go.

[12:00] You know what, I'm gonna go home. Movie trailer it's a movie trailer, exactly. You get you excited about it, you learn a little bit enough about, oh, you know what? I didn't think about it that way. I'm gonna take that and bring them with me. And how do you all? How do you pare it down? So it's not like a, you know, two-hour presentation. Well, it's really just like a snapshot of where you're at, like, so, you know, when you go down.

[12:00] Like, I try to procrastinate as long as possible because when I do, I can build it extremely fast. But you know, the longer I wait, the more half. The time to format the ideas. So, you know, I may have not have been writing the presentation, but I've been thinking about things I want to say. So, then it's just like a matter of, okay, how much time do I have? Just trying to shoot, like, maybe it's light a minute, and then just I just try to shoot for your.

[12:00] A lot of times, though, that makes sense, everybody, since you're in the same. ROGER yeah, yeah, so what? What I do is like you once appear down your presentation to one core idea. For example. For me, it's had developed these adaptive user interfaces using Molitor's and development and so on. Like, alright, so there's like this precursory knowledge of what is MA driven development was that the user interfaces and then literally everything else.

[13:00] Like, when someone shows code on the screen, I don't expect anyone to read it. I'm just like, here's where you could find this, here's more resources. Yeah, you know, it's just to get exposure. I always said that going to conferences for a conference at Sandy is for two things. Number one for networking, of course, biggest values, and number two is for learning what to learn, not learning. Yes, I'm learning one to learn information, yes, and machine, yeah.

[14:00] Speaking of that, what?

[14:00] We're actually using a darker, we're learning, like the, you know, cloud room. Yeah, we're actually. We're actually able to use our existing, like flutter application for the business logic through a REST API. Like, it's a whole like, crazy things. So instead of having a client, a server application, we're using the same application with different endpoints. Which is so we can reuse all existing business logic, other models but expose it in a different aspect.

[14:00] So it's because, like a lot of really cool things that we can use to save. How much we're doing and being able to have, you know, different. What? So, earlier today, I actually saw Lee works talk, it was a provocative talk and he's actually a great speaker. I think this was his first conference gave, but he talked about you don't deserve senior developers. And so it was, oh yeah, knees where it's like, we're all hiring for all these senior developers, but really, the belly comes from your junior developers.

[15:00] Plus, in Central Florida, no one. Can afford senior developers, and it is no like, quit trying to get some juniors, and we're by hiring junior developers you get all this value. Like, they're able to tell you what are the pain points in your code base, and you're able to basically foster them into these. Senior developers that have very specific domain knowledge, which is more valuable than just any senior developer you could call the street.

[15:00] Yeah, OK, which one? Most like the one we have Rekha for us about parent development, because we actually, I've never heard that before. Maybe a junior senior getting together, I start learning angler. Yeah, did you get one of those like certificates? So he's in Brazil and I'm in Tampa, so yeah, we've been. Yeah, that'd be like doing like a like, a podcast, like a livestream for like, I don't know how long.

[17:00] Months and months and months, and then never meeting the person. Yeah, I don't like just random meeting them. In Texas, it was because I was doing a Rillette stream workshop. There was artifact Comp going on too. And that was actually the first conference that he's been to. So he's like, I'm not them, like, yeah, they snuck me into the conference, it was great. They want to be on your show. Yeah, I actually found that kind of interesting because Dave.

[17:00] A lot of people in history probably look up to Dave and Chris a great deal. And yet for him too. So what would your, and if I can ask, go around the room? What was your favorite part about the conference today? Well, this was actually the first conference. Okay, yeah, and I'm actually moving out. So Silicon Valley to speak at a lot more. So. It was awesome to see everyone here and meet the friendliness of this conference, like just so many people to talk to.

[18:00] And because it's three different areas, you have this Vista or the, you know, which is like, completely new. It's like, yeah, I love that track in Orlando, what I really want to foster because I'm part be all Orlando devs. You know, many things we want fosters. Just bringing this whole entrepreneur, business side and developer side together, because they seem very separate. And we wants to, you know, just make them work together and so that's what they're.

[19:00] Trying to at this conference to which is why we have the startup stage, the mobile states, the web stage. So it's really interesting, just, you know, seeing all those different perspectives. Yeah, yeah, for me, my first internet all talk, so oh, really okay, and first talking it's international. Oh, and I meet some great people that I was like, one here, you know, for me, that's so cool. So what was the biggest surprise when you met each other?

[19:00] Like, so, I've worked my Dollard in remote and like everyone thinks, I'm super tall. I don't know why.

[20:00] Maybe I have the camera. Like, thank you. Yeah, I'm always that. Yeah, yeah, everybody looks the same for me, like, I don't know. Past like six months, we've been talking three days a week. Awesome, so how? What's the best way people could? We'll go around room, what's the best way people could learn more about you? I'm extremely active on GitHub, so you can follow me at Apple education, and I'm also on Twitter at Brody Davis.

[20:00] Excellent and store team. Yes, and they answer, David, so I'm on Twitter, GitHub everywhere as ads. David KaYe piano because I play the piano, I went to school for piano. But also if you type in the word state machine, literally creating imaginative in there user interfaces from like with HTML, CSS, JavaScript. Another guest coming on soon we? So we just had Mr. Valve from Google, so that was a really fun. And but yeah, we do able to have some more guests on the show.

[21:00] - all right, awesome from you. Jessica ESKE. So it's three there and GitHub and I'm stalking awesome, great, yeah, and we'll have links to everything in the show. Notes. Well, thanks everyone for joining us, really appreciate it and thanks everybody for watching and, appreciate you spending some time with us at FS. Take care everybody.